Sages Problem Course

[derricksummers]

Hi Sage, I am still working on your course and the good news is that the problem is solved. To start with I have set out all the holes with Pins and Tees so that I could select any hole and play the course in Links. I continued working on the theory that it could be caused by verts and edges. I found that as long as there was an original bunker on the course I could not create a new bunker with no lines. So one by one and testing I removed all the bunkers, Verts and textures the lot. I then decided to go the full monty and sort out all the verts that were not needed and clean up all the edges, I am up to hole eight. At no time have I altered the layout its just how you made it, just cleaned everything up. Below is the course as it is.

Screenshot_2.png (233.92 KiB) Viewed 6134 times

I have also included a few bunkers one with my textures and the others with yours. No Problems.

Screenshot_1.png (1.16 MiB) Viewed 6134 times

Screenshot_5.png (1.31 MiB) Viewed 6134 times

Screenshot_4.png (615.53 KiB) Viewed 6134 times

The Vert count up to now as been reduced from 34058 - to - 15436 and the faces from 68088 - to - 30844. and it takes less than 10 seconds to do a V&S.
Once I have cleaned up the other holes its all yours to finish off. ( Sorry about the Bunkers )
I have deleted the user lib several times and the only textures now on the course are yours.
Derrick

[braden1308]

That is interesting Derrick but when you reduce the number of verts that much you are making drastic changes to elevation, and it definitely will not solve the problem when using dems, you are looking at 50,000+ verts on a lot of those.

I do see how it would work but I believe you are eliminating a lot of detail

[sagevanni]

Hi Derrick,
Sounds good to me and if it works in the end.................awesome.....!!!!!
Thanks for all your effort....!!!!
Sage......

[derricksummers]

Hi Glenn, The vert removal I am talking about will not effect the elevations, I agree with all you say about dems etc but this problem Sage has is not a glitch as you say, its man made throuigh untidy work. When I first started I was given some good advice by some very experienced designers.
1. Only use enough verts to do the job. 2. Never have to many edges converging onto one vert. 3. Keep the edges tidy with no overlaps. this advice as been my way of doing things. With the course in mention all these things were present and in my opinion for what its worth is the cause of Sages problem

Screenshot_6.png (1.48 MiB) Viewed 6092 times

These are the type of verts I am on about, they do nothing for the path and can be removed, Below is how I would do it with them removed.

Screenshot_9.png (317.06 KiB) Viewed 6092 times

I agree that you need different ways for elevation etc, but I have never used Dems, extrusions or anything complicated so I cant comment on this subject
I have looked at some of Sages courses to see how certain things have been done and to say he is very untidy is a bit of an under statment. but if its O.K DONT FIX IT ?
Hi Sage. I have not changed your course in any way other than thin out the verts, and turn the edges, the problem seems to be a combination of all the three things I mentioned. So I hope my tin Pot findings are of help to someone in the future. This is not a glitch but a man made problem.

I have just had the electrode tests on my hands and the results came up as Severe, and is definitly Carpul Tunnel, so I am now waiting for the Op for it.

Derrick

[braden1308]

Hi Derrick,

I fully understand what you mean, but many times you are giving up on detail. I learned from the best, but I guess it doesn't matter much on a fictional course, but you if you are working a real course then it will change the way you look at things. When I started designing 18 years ago we strived for detail on courses, and I still do. We never would have even looked at sacrificing detail when you would occasionally have some odd lines in the bunkers. My mesh is never sloppy but it is detailed. What Sage does for the most part is very normal in the design process. Could he clean it up some, yes he could, as I have done on a couple of our collaborations. The APCD is full of bugs and this bunker issue is something that should not be there but I don't think the programmers were even imagining some of the things we would be doing with it. (BTW, I use the APCD mod almost exclusively which did add some improvements).

When I was working on Liberty National I had to reduce the number of verts, but it was due to slow rendering. I had to take the verts from areas that would not be seen in gameplay but it was noticeable if you compared the game to pictures of the course. It bothered me to do that but that's just me.

BTW, I had a couple of Mike Jones courses that were unlocked and his mesh would have killed you, but the courses were beautiful.

Hope the carpel tunnel surgery works out, that will probably have you on the shelf for awhile. Good Luck and I sincerely hope all works out well!!!

Glenn

[derricksummers]

Thanks Glenn. I do appreciate all the advice I can get from you experienced designers. Everything I do is just basics.
One thing I have noticed is how much quicker a V&S is with less verts. One thing I made sure of was not to change the layout when removing verts.
Derrick

[derricksummers]

Hi Sage, I have finished the work on your course and its now ready to hand it back, the problem is I have no program to do this. What is the method you suggest. All I can think of is to upload it as a Beta, if its O.K with Andy ?
I have transfered it into links and played through it to test it. A couple of things I found was that on a few of the holes the water had a redish tint on it, the others were fine. Also the dark texture tiled very bad in the game. and lastly on some holes the skyline did not quite look right as if it was to high.
I have removed 19,650 Verts and 39300 faces. Most of it as been on paths and water edgeing and none of it as altered any elevations you have done. The design of the course is just how you made it. I have planted 5 Tees per hole with just 4 Pins on each green, just for testing. I did this work in stages when removing Verts and turning edges and every so often I tried making a bunker with no lines. This is the part I do not understand as long as one of the bunkers you did was on the course the lines would not go away. It was only when I deleted the last bunker that things worked normal. Why the Verts in those bunkers were causing the problem I have no idea, its one for the experts. The main thing is the course is now working and as not been lost. I have left 3 bunkers on the course so when you do some bunkers you can see if any lines appear on mine or yours. Hope everythink goes well.
Derrick

[sagevanni]

Hi Derrick,
If Andy is okay with the "beta" thing I will let him know when I have downloaded it and he can delete the data.

Thanks for looking things over Derrick..............

Sage......

[Adelade]

If Sage sends you his email address, you can easily send files via this website: https://wetransfer.com/ . It is fully free and you dont even have to make any account. The site might ask you to make an account, but dont believe it, you can just click away from it (try clicking anywhere in the background if you dont see anywhere to decline) and you will get to the file transfer interface (you may also have to decline or accept website cookies). There you just need to upload the file (click on the plus-sign), then enter your own email address and the recipient's email address. Make sure to check that the file finishes uploading before continuing. Then it sends you a confirmation email, so you need to enter into your own email, get the code they sent, input it and send the file.

[sagevanni]

sagevanni2010@hotmail.com