Castle Pines 2021 Beta Feedback

[ChuckH]

Regarding hole 11, as Chad said, the hole is very much downhill to the green. In Tiger Woods 08 it is sharply downhill and in JN6 it is also sharply downhill. In fact, the name of the hole is "Big Drop" in JN6 and probably the most recognizable hole with the cascade/waterfall. Hole 2 is also downhill to what is now a pond in front of the green. It used to have a bunker with a rock wall in front of it.

[Jimbo]

Steve:

I've started the Nit Pick and see some major issues right out of the box.
Since Castle Pines opened in 1981 the City of Castle Pines, Colorado has been incorporated-meaning that what was once a relatively wide open course (like the original version) has now sprouted many expen$ive hou$e$-some bordering the fairways and some tucked just behind the trees. The course itself has experienced some redesigns that will affect your elevations.
This real estate thing happens 99% of the time when they build "wide-open" golf clubs-right? Then the next thing you know they're trying to pull a "Glen Abbey" stunt...but enough politics!
I'm more than willing to continue the Nit Pick if you want-I'm just afraid of what I may find. For what it's worth your hole distances from the tips are almost spot on-except for #10.
I'm going to stop my Nit Pick after the 3rd hole-if you want me to continue just give me the green light.
As the designer it's up to you.

Jim

[SLucey]

Well now that I have the v2 update of Mauna Kea completed I will turn my attention back to Castle Pines. There will be a 2nd beta for this course. I have located a extremely good hole by hole flyover and detailed text descriptions of the idiosyncrasies on the terrain features - adjustments will be made.
As regards the housing boom: the reason for not including any in 1st beta was because...well...let us just say the APCD doesn't exactly come with any 3D models of mansions and expensive homes on par with the real homes surrounding this private club. Feeling they would actually detract I left them out.

[pmgolf]

I'm sure it's just me, but neither Castle Pines nor Mauna Kea excite me the way that they use to. Castle Pines with its elevation changes and Mauna Kea with its tropical beauty. Mauna Kea didn't translate to the new as well as I would have hoped. Castle Pines seems more closed in than the original version did. Originally the trees and undergrowth seemed more wide-spread giving an open feeling. And with elevations, I don't sense them quite as well with the new version as I did with the old one.

I realize how much work goes into creating them though - I just didn't know how difficult it was going to be to recreate the "feeling" of one of the original courses. And it's a big deal for me because I plan to re-do Barton Creek. Maybe have the denser growth held in the background and the sparser growth closer to the fairway. I don't know what would help with the elevation though.

Recreating these courses is a lot more difficult than I thought!

Pete

[Jimbo]

Pete-I have to take issue-especially with Castle Pines. The Colorado landscape is beautiful and they've built up the neighbourhood (see my earlier post). The major problem that threatens to blow up his work is the course redesign that changed a lot of elevations.

[pmgolf]

I agree with you about the elevations, Jimbo. The wide-open vs. closed-in issue is just a difference of opinion, though. To me, showing added housing doesn't do anything good for the course.

Pete

[Jimbo]

Hi Pete-let me know if you want me to keep nit-picking...you've got a beautiful piece of work and if I can help that would be fine.

As you may have gathered I grew up with urban golf courses-and there are hundreds of classic courses and IMHO the urban surroundings have a beneficial effect. Check Lambton. I grew up in Toronto and was able to help "urbanize" it...and I think that it worked. BTW I may have mentioned it before but Lambton is only a few blocks from St. George's.

Anyway let me know if you want to keep working on it.

[pmgolf]

I wouldn't want my opinion of a golf course affect anyone elses. Go for it, Jimbo!

Pete

[Jimbo]

Pete-I'll be glad to nit pick and hopefully we'll be able to make this work out!
I stopped after 3 holes and will send what I have to you. The best way to deal with it will be to send one hole at a time.
Let me know when you want the next one.

[GoBucks]

Pete-I'll be glad to nit pick and hopefully we'll be able to make this work out!
I stopped after 3 holes and will send what I have to you. The best way to deal with it will be to send one hole at a time.
Let me know when you want the next one.

Are we still talking about Steve's Castle Pines makeover?