Links Corner Forum

hello, I am looking for any info on how to handicap. what i do know is you have to find the hardest hole and this becomes # 1. if it is on the front nine then the odd #'s will also be on the front. you then determine what the hardest hole is on the back and this becomes # 2 and all the even #'s will be on the back.
I would guess that all rounds tested would be on the back tees. The question is what conditions do you use? do you only play 1 set of options or do you use and mix all options and how many rounds would you play.

So this was discussed on the old forum (which is gone) some year ago, it may have even be me who brought up the question, dont remember. What I learned from the discussion was that the idea of hole handicapping reflecting hole difficulty, actually is a (common) misconception. Hear me out:

From what I understand (anyone is welcome to speak up if Im wrong) the main purpose of hole handicaps is for match play with handicaps involved and essentially the only other purpose is handicap play where each individual hole give points that are directly affected by handicap. Therefore the purpose of hole handicaps becomes to give strokes to the player with higher handicap on holes where they most need it compared to a lower handicap player. In other words, the hole with handicap 1 should be the hole where the difference in gross score (number of strokes actually taken) between lower and higher handicap players on average is the largest.

There are some other things to take into account though, such as:
-as you say, front/back 9 being divided into odd and even hole handicaps.
-preferably avoid the lowest hole handicaps being assigned on holes that matches are scheduled to end around, to avoid scenarios of matches being decided before all strokes are given to the higher handicap player. I believe its for this reason - if there is no big difference between front and back 9 - ideally front 9 should have odd numbers.
-preferably avoid the lowest handicaps on the first few holes where a playoff would be played.

I dont remember exactly who it was that helped me realize these things but I think it may have been Tim Boche

With that in mind, let me add my personal opinion on the matter, in context of Links.

I could be wrong (The Tigercats may come and tell me Im wrong for example - I dont know how they play), but I speculate that the amount of Links players who either play handicap match play or a mode where you get individual points per hole based on handicap, is extremely low. Many play with handicaps yes, but based on LSPN and if I have understood LSPN correctly, the handicap is applied to the total 18 hole score rather than individual holes. With that in mind, in my opinion it shouldnt be so important exactly what the hole handicaps are, I believe that those who use them mostly just dont want courses to be completely without them. My advice is - if its a real course look up the real hole handicaps, if its a fictional course set hole handicaps to what you imagine they ought to be in regard to the guidelines I mentioned above. Dont stress over it, just go with what you believe, thats what I did for my own course anyway. I personally think hole handicaps based on hole difficulty would be more interesting, so you wont hear me being opposed to that method, but thats just me. If any of this sounds too bothersome to wrap one's head around, just put any kind of hole handicaps, roll a dice or something, its better than leaving them blank. I emphasize that those are merely my opinions and if people who actually use hole handicaps for Links have anything different to say then of course ignore me and listen to them.

john erskine wrote: ↑February 9th, 2020, 4:46 pm hello, I am looking for any info on how to handicap. what i do know is you have to find the hardest hole and this becomes # 1. if it is on the front nine then the odd #'s will also be on the front. you then determine what the hardest hole is on the back and this becomes # 2 and all the even #'s will be on the back.
I would guess that all rounds tested would be on the back tees. The question is what conditions do you use? do you only play 1 set of options or do you use and mix all options and how many rounds would you play.

Hi John...
I'll toss in my solution to this issue. I went thru the same thing when I created my first fictional course that didn't already have handicaps. Just keep in mind that this is only one method, but I found it to be the fastest, the easiest, the fairest, and the most reasonable solution I could find. Just my personal opinion, nothing more.

There are 2 programs or utilities that I used.

One is an executable program that works like an XL spreadsheet. It's a handicapping calculator.
Two is a registry program that disables ball flight to save time.

When using the ball flight disabler, what happens is, your player will make a swing, and the instant you hear the CLACK of the club striking the ball, the shot is over and the ball will show up where it would have landed if you had watched it fly there. This saves a tremendous amount of time. This registry "Ball Flight" program can be toggled on and off as needed.

Here's the method I used.

First I ran the registry program to turn off ball flight. Next I started a game and assigned a 4some of computer players to play my course. 2 were pro, and 2 were champ. NOTE: You do NOT have to play with these guys. They will play the complete round automatically without your help. (unless one of them gets stuck in an unusual situation where for some odd reason they can't complete the shot , which is rare)

I set the course wind and speed to random settings which I just made up on my own. I made some difficult round conditions, and some easy ones and let them play out the round while I had dinner, or did something else. Seems like it took around 45 minutes for them to play an 18 hole round. It's been 3 years and I can't really remember.

Also, you may choose to leave ball flight enabled and watch that 4some play a round or two. You can keep your eyes peeled on the course and your work while they play, kinda like a beta tester. You can make notes of anything that needs attention, and make the repairs before final release.

After they completed 18 holes, I entered their scores into the XL handicapping program, and took cell phone pictures of the scorecards in case something went wrong and I lost the original scores. You can also do screen captures and save them to a paint program.

To complete the handicapping chart you need 30 rounds of golf. Playing 7 rounds with 4 players will get you 28 rounds. Then one more round with a 2some will complete the chart. After all 30 rounds are entered into the handicapper calculator, you will then have your handicaps to enter into your course. NOTE! - I do not know if all 30 rounds are actually required to establish handicaps, but the chart shows 30, so that's what I used for mine.

NOTES:
Make sure each round has different conditions, and always use 2 PRO & 2 CHAMP players (or equal amounts of each skill) per round.

In the rare circumstances that one of them gets stuck, such as what I had happen once, do not give that player more than 3 over par for that specific hole. (I had a player that kept hitting a wood out of a greenside bunker, and knocking it out of bounds). I ended up making him pick up. That was a game fluke. I didn't think it would have been reasonable to give him an outrageous score because of that, so I gave him 3 over par on that hole and entered it into the handicapping calculator.

If you want to give that method a try, here is the handicap calculator and registry program. My advice is to wait until you get all of the scores completed before you enter them into the calculator. I found that calculator to be a little strange or buggy, and I lost the scores I had already entered, probably because I didn't have any detailed instructions on exactly how to use it. So you're on your own when it comes to that. One important thing to remember is the name you give it when you save it. Make it something simple that you won't forget. Remember, its an .exe program, and when you save scores in it and try to open it another time, it come's up with a blank chart, and you'll need the exact name you saved it as. Otherwise you won't find what you had already entered. That was why I suggested doing it all at one time. How you choose to try is up to you. Just make sure you save copies of rounds already played so you will always have the numbers.

Good luck,

Dan

Download those 2 utilities here.

COURSE HANDICAPPER - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1ialna696uol ... r.zip?dl=0

SKIP BALL FLIGHT - https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkdjr387ecdxm ... t.zip?dl=0

Thanks very much Adelade and Danny for your inputs and info. I was under the impression that the handicap was the hardest to easiest. after reading your posts and doing some research I beleive their really should be 2 ratings on a scorecard. one for the hole ranking and one for hole handicap.
Danny, thanks for the links. Great idea to use the computer players to complete rds.

After reading what has just been said about Handicapping a course
My question is does anybody playing Links use the Handicaps and if so how do
they apply it to the game
I am not yet ready to handicap my course, In the ones I have done I have simply
play tested the course about 6 times and then give an handicap on how I thought
the holes played.If no one uses it in Links there is not much point in doing one
There goes my motto again ( Keep things as Simple as possible ) !!
Derrick

Going of the responce to my question of does anybody playing Links Courses
use the Handicap System, It looks as though no one does, so why bother doing them ?

derricksummers wrote: ↑February 13th, 2020, 10:26 pm Going of the responce to my question of does anybody playing Links Courses
use the Handicap System, It looks as though no one does, so why bother doing them ?

The handicap is used to allow competing players to allocate strokes to make the competition more fair, or as a tie-breaker. I expect that it has been used over the years for those purposes or others. It may be used again - who knows? Why not continue to do them - just in case.

Pete

Thanks for the reply
I can understand how they are used in real life, but how do you apply them
to the members playing in Links. Are the scores thats been clocked up used
to say just how good they are ? There are a lot of methods of play in the
game that would also have to be taken into account, I play a couple of rounds
every day as I am on my own with plenty of time on my hands, but the joys
of old age take its toll on how I can play the game, I just use the simple way
I have been a member for a long time and I really miss the old members who
are no longer with us,and all the good designers who are no longer producing
any courses, It seems a long time now since I bought Arts Book to try and get
my head around how the APCD works, By the way I have just done my first
EXTRUDE and like Danny said it does make things a lot easier with verts for
making paths etc, looks like there is life in the old boy yet. Thanks Danny !!
Derrick

One use of hole handicaps I forgot to mention: when setting up a tournament I like to put some variety in, so I look for the more difficult par 3 or par 4 and play the toughest ones from either the middle or forward tees in one round or another. I use the hole handicap to help me find the right holes. I've played all the courses, but it would be impossible for me to remember which holes are the toughest without the hole handicap. Here is the list of the courses I used last season:

World Tour Season 3
The Links at Ballylecum Castle - 10/4
Prairie Dog - 10/10
Kanaal New Course 2016 - 10/17
Adams Tree GC - 10/24
Brydestone Golf Club (2004) - 10/31
Waterstone GC / Huntingdale GC - 11/07
Cypress Point Club - 11/14
Bay Hill 2016 - Tourn.Ed. - 11/21
Zeitsbergen - 11/28
Starts with C - Chateau Bourache,
Casten Acres (Beta), Craters Edge - 12/8
Rare Gems - St Christophers Bay, Southern
Cross, Ok. Crossings, Old Cypress (East)
Crystal Pines HD - 12/31
Kapa'a Golf Resort - 1/9
Adams Tree GC
East Coast Links
Atlantic Point - 2/7
West Coast Links Tourney Edition
Pacific Breaks 2003
Old Cypress G.C. (East Course)
Owelstery White Horse - 3/6
Royal Kenya Country Club
Pine Valley Golf Club - Crump Cup 3-21
Black Rose Valley 3-28
Cara Brae HD 4-4
Links Sampler 3 - Bally-Quid 4-11
St. Andrews Old HD 4-18
Carrie Park 4-25
Crooked Creek HD 5-2
Xilver Prairie 2007 & Xilver Plaine 2005 5-9
Rugged Dune GC 5-16
Bro Hof Slott - Stadium Course Final 5-23
Turnberry / Royal Troon 5-30
Las Joyas HD 6-6
Links Sampler - Prestnoch
Dark Woods Golf Club 6-20
The Brabazon at the Belfry 2002
Excelsior Golf Estate - 7/4
Carnoustie 2007 / St Christophers Bay
Enniscrone Dunes (OWGC) / Quidnet
Valhalla Golf Club - PGA Edition
Hazeltine National Golf Club 2009 - 8/1
Open
Bartlett Springs HD
Firestone-South Course 2016-18
Whistling Straits HD
More Mikes 9/6 - Northern Dunes, Babylon
Ridge, El Escorpion 05, DriftWood 03
Mix-a-lot - Royal Kenya, Pilgrim Trails,
Shadowlands HD, Crooked Creek HD
Wentworth West 2014 PGA

and World LWT Tour Season 3
Quail Hollow Club - 10/04
Baltusrol Lower - Members Course 2017 - 10/10
Royal Kenya Country Club - 10/17
Torrey Pines South 2013 - 10/23
Candlestick Blue - 10/30
Alfred Dunhill Links - St Andrews Old HD, Turn-
berry Ailsa Course HD, Royal Troon HD - 11/07
Shadowlands GC HD
Rabat Rouge Golf Links
Prairie Dunes 2008
Innisbrook Copperhead 2013 - 12/8
Royal County Kilderry 2003
Pilgrim Trails Golf Club
Kapu Moku - 1/9
Mikes Mix - DriftWood, El Escorpion,
Shadowlands HD, Las Joyas HD
Bunclody Golf & Fishing Club
Pebble Beach 2004 - 2/6
Riviera CC
GC Gut Larchenhof 2016
PGA National Golf Club - Champion Course
Bay Hill 2016 - Tournament Edition - 3/7
TPC Sawgrass 2008 3-14
Portmarnock Links 3-21
El Escorpion '05 3-28
BlackWolf Run-River Course 4-4
Augusta National 2009 4-11
Harbour Town Golf Links HD 4-18
TPC Boston 2013 4-25
Quail Hollow Club 5-2
Oakmont Country Club 2010 Beta 5-9
Bethpage Black HD 5-16
Congressional Country Club 2011 5-23
Muirfield Village 2012 5-30
Oakland Hills South 2008 - beta 6-6
Pebble Beach 2004 6-13 US Open
Burns' Old Links HD 6-20
Bull Run HD
Sinsanianeck Beta - 7/4
Pinehurst #2 Restoration HD
Links Holiday - Errislannan Cliffs v2, Carton Hse -
O' Meara, Castle Stuart '15, Portmarnock Lnks
RidgewoodCC_FinalBeta
Plainfield Country Club  BETA - 8/1
Liberty National
Medinah C.C. #3 v2005
East Lake GC
Celtic Manor Golf Resort (Ryder Cup)
The Creek At Dubai - 9/5
Kill Devil Hills (2 rounds)

Membership at LSPN is free. Anyone interested in joining, contact me or post here and I will guide you through it.

Pete

derricksummers wrote: ↑February 14th, 2020, 10:56 am By the way I have just done my first EXTRUDE and like Danny said it does make things a lot easier with verts for making paths etc, looks like there is life in the old boy yet. Thanks Danny !!
Derrick

You're welcome Derrick. I try to make instructions as easy to follow as possible. If you just take your time and follow them step by step, a lot of these functions are easier than they might appear.