Sage......
Links and Linux
Re: Links and Linux
Got that right Armand........................
Sage......
Sage......
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
Re: Links and Linux
I used MS Office extensively at work for many years. Word, Excel, Access, Outlook mostly with lots of VBA code bringing them all together for various applications.
For home use I did have both installed on Windows but since retirement have switched to using LibreOffice only. I do not have the need to do all the coding I used to and what I did have in Excel transferred over without too much issue. So I now just us LO on both Windows and Linux.
My newest Desktop and notebook use Windows and the previous Notebook and Desktop run Linux, and probably do so quicker than they ever ran Windows. I have been dabbling with a very old 32 bit netbook with a Linux distribution, and it will even work as a small portable to take with me for basic stuff.
For home use I did have both installed on Windows but since retirement have switched to using LibreOffice only. I do not have the need to do all the coding I used to and what I did have in Excel transferred over without too much issue. So I now just us LO on both Windows and Linux.
My newest Desktop and notebook use Windows and the previous Notebook and Desktop run Linux, and probably do so quicker than they ever ran Windows. I have been dabbling with a very old 32 bit netbook with a Linux distribution, and it will even work as a small portable to take with me for basic stuff.
Re: Links and Linux
Just for those watching.
I have done some testing, the crash I am getting is consistent, it just occurs at different points during a round on various courses.
There appears to be a common element. The courses that are crashing all have a significant amount of reflective water, and all that have crashed that showed such water before the crash has at least parts of it showing as solid light blue, rather than reflective.
I have posted the info to the Wine forums, but am not hopeful of a response, Golf does not seem to be the flavour of the month.
I have done some testing, the crash I am getting is consistent, it just occurs at different points during a round on various courses.
There appears to be a common element. The courses that are crashing all have a significant amount of reflective water, and all that have crashed that showed such water before the crash has at least parts of it showing as solid light blue, rather than reflective.
I have posted the info to the Wine forums, but am not hopeful of a response, Golf does not seem to be the flavour of the month.
Re: Links and Linux
I have given up on Wine and explored VMs (Virtual Machines) running under Linux. My MX Linux distro/repo has VirtualBox, so I installed that and used a WinXP iso that I found online. I was able to install Links no problem, and it seems to run. I haven't installed any courses to try, because I get a message that 3D acceleration is disabled due to lack of hardware support. I'm also limited in the RAM I can assign to the XP Pro (32-bit) VM that I created, so I'm not sure how well it works, but the early signs are promising. The host computer only has 4GB of ram and 35% of that is used when I boot 64-bit MX Linux. I might have to switch back to 32-bit Linux and see if that is less demanding on that 2008 laptop.
I wonder if a VM installation would help Sage and Daniel with APCD and Links under Win 11. I don't think Win 11 home comes with Virtual Machine software, but I believe it can be added so they could install Win10, Win7 or whatever other guest OS on their Win11 computers. Anyway, those are different threads and a bit off-topic for this one...
Armand
I wonder if a VM installation would help Sage and Daniel with APCD and Links under Win 11. I don't think Win 11 home comes with Virtual Machine software, but I believe it can be added so they could install Win10, Win7 or whatever other guest OS on their Win11 computers. Anyway, those are different threads and a bit off-topic for this one...
Armand
Re: Links and Linux
I am keeping an open mind on Wine and will try newer versions as they become available, as the crash is very consistent I do not think there are a large number of problems. Possibly just a couple of things missing.
On courses that do not crash performance is pretty good on a Gen 7 i5 notebook using Intel GPU. Using the onboard Nvidia however it is not great, can get quite slow and jerky, rather odd that Intel performs better.
I have been doing work with using the wrapper on Linux.
I had some crashes with the wrapper, these seemed to be resolved by setting the wrapper not to use its own virtual HBA but found that using the Geforce FX 5700 setting gave me the best overall result. Perhaps something not quite there in Wine again.
On a Gen 3 i3 desktop machine with a Nvidia GT640 HBA I am seeing average screen rendering times in the 10-13 second range. This uses a different driver version than the notebook.
The Notebook with the wrapper has me baffled. I get basically a black screen when in Intel GPU mode, some lines on the screen which I think are lines under the letter that is the short cut, the opening sound is playing. I'm at a loss of what else to try, I have used just about every wrapper setting.
In Nvidia mode Links starts and runs, but those same performance issues that were seen without the wrapper surfaced to a degree. It is not consistent some courses are notable others are fine. Performance was improved by setting the performance slider back a couple of clicks and changing the sky to be blank. Newer drivers also perform better, the same driver version as on the desktop is no good.
The notebook is even a bit contrary when running Windows 10 with Links, I cannot use the native resolution - mode 10, I have to use Mode 5.
I have been looking at other wrappers but have not found one that runs without problem.
I really do not want to get into using VMs, that makes it more complicated than I want. I really just wanted to expand my use of Links to Linux and especially the notebook. I do have it on Windows 11 machines and they are running well. I initially started looking at Linux to see how viable it would be to replace Windows for my usage and I had some retired Windows machine to use for the project, it started as a Covid lock down project.
It's been pretty successful, there are a couple of things easier to do on Windows and I have found some useful software in the process to use on both platforms.
Given the success what I do now is as I replace a Windows system the old box moves to Linux so I extend its life. My Linux machines now are 7 and 12 years old and run well. These replaced machines that were about 16 years old.
Always keen to hear ideas of what I can do to get Links running better on Linux.
Des
On courses that do not crash performance is pretty good on a Gen 7 i5 notebook using Intel GPU. Using the onboard Nvidia however it is not great, can get quite slow and jerky, rather odd that Intel performs better.
I have been doing work with using the wrapper on Linux.
I had some crashes with the wrapper, these seemed to be resolved by setting the wrapper not to use its own virtual HBA but found that using the Geforce FX 5700 setting gave me the best overall result. Perhaps something not quite there in Wine again.
On a Gen 3 i3 desktop machine with a Nvidia GT640 HBA I am seeing average screen rendering times in the 10-13 second range. This uses a different driver version than the notebook.
The Notebook with the wrapper has me baffled. I get basically a black screen when in Intel GPU mode, some lines on the screen which I think are lines under the letter that is the short cut, the opening sound is playing. I'm at a loss of what else to try, I have used just about every wrapper setting.
In Nvidia mode Links starts and runs, but those same performance issues that were seen without the wrapper surfaced to a degree. It is not consistent some courses are notable others are fine. Performance was improved by setting the performance slider back a couple of clicks and changing the sky to be blank. Newer drivers also perform better, the same driver version as on the desktop is no good.
The notebook is even a bit contrary when running Windows 10 with Links, I cannot use the native resolution - mode 10, I have to use Mode 5.
I have been looking at other wrappers but have not found one that runs without problem.
I really do not want to get into using VMs, that makes it more complicated than I want. I really just wanted to expand my use of Links to Linux and especially the notebook. I do have it on Windows 11 machines and they are running well. I initially started looking at Linux to see how viable it would be to replace Windows for my usage and I had some retired Windows machine to use for the project, it started as a Covid lock down project.
It's been pretty successful, there are a couple of things easier to do on Windows and I have found some useful software in the process to use on both platforms.
Given the success what I do now is as I replace a Windows system the old box moves to Linux so I extend its life. My Linux machines now are 7 and 12 years old and run well. These replaced machines that were about 16 years old.
Always keen to hear ideas of what I can do to get Links running better on Linux.
Des
Re: Links and Linux
Alas with what I am finding i do not consider it viable to run Links on Linux today.
With various configurations I can certainly get it running, the problem is there are various problems occurring, many course centric.
I have the software running both with and without the wrapper, in itself it runs really well without the wrapper on both Nvidia and Intel GPUs, but I see certain courses in my test subset routinely crash, mostly with the same dump. I suspect something not implemented in Wine at this time. Running without the wrapper would be my preference.
I have tried various versions of the wrapper we are using on Windows, with mixed results. Some problems resolved by changing the HBA setting in the wrapper, other problems appearing only on certain courses like empty hole previews.
Other wrappers I have also tried, the best result there was to having Links run, but with the infamous disappearing golfer.
If the crash under Wine could be fixed using Wine alone would be a nice solution. When running it goes well even on old hardware.
With various configurations I can certainly get it running, the problem is there are various problems occurring, many course centric.
I have the software running both with and without the wrapper, in itself it runs really well without the wrapper on both Nvidia and Intel GPUs, but I see certain courses in my test subset routinely crash, mostly with the same dump. I suspect something not implemented in Wine at this time. Running without the wrapper would be my preference.
I have tried various versions of the wrapper we are using on Windows, with mixed results. Some problems resolved by changing the HBA setting in the wrapper, other problems appearing only on certain courses like empty hole previews.
Other wrappers I have also tried, the best result there was to having Links run, but with the infamous disappearing golfer.
If the crash under Wine could be fixed using Wine alone would be a nice solution. When running it goes well even on old hardware.
Re: Links and Linux
I now have Links running pretty well on a Gen 3 i3 desktop with Nvidia GT640 HBA under Linux Mint.
I use a subset of around 20 course, some show a little bit of a slowdown in rendering but nothing that dramatic.
When just using Wine (v9.21) around 40% of the courses suffer a crash, it is always the same crash. I have reported it, I suspect something is lacking in Wine, whether it gets addressed who knows.
Hence I have used the wrapper. Personally I think the 2.55 version works a tad better with Linux than the posted 2.7 version.
There is one important thing to note. The Windows instructions have you get the VRAM to 1024, do that on Linux and it will crash with some courses, some will have things like black hole previews or major video corruption. Instead set it to 128MB, that appears to make it happy and I have seen no further problems in this space.
My notebook is another story. It is an Acer Aspire (Gen 7 i5) with 1366 x 768 resolution it has its on chip Intel 620 graphics plus a Nvidia 940MX GPU. I'll start by saying that this resolution on Windows with Link has problems and it is necessary to set it lower.
Wine alone has the same problems as on Desktop with crashes, with courses that do not crash it works really well, even to translucent shadows on Intel working.
Using the wrapper software when in Intel mode Links comes up with a black screen with some lines, they look like lines that would be under the short cut keys. The software is unusable, I have not found a fix. I welcome any suggestions.
Under Nvidia mode with the wrapper Links runs and works, however I see progressively slower rendering times and jerkiness coming on, a restart resets this, notably without the wrapper the same slowdown is observed. Later versions of the Nvidia driver improve the situation, earlier versions do not including the same family that works well on the desktop.
The last couple of major versions of the wrapper that have been released do not work on Linux at all, the developer has no interest in Linux so no resolutions or assistance is likely to come from that direction. I note a water rendering problem using the latest version on Windows as well.
I'll continue to keep an eye on future Wine releases and newer version of the Nvidia driver. Ideal I would love to see a Wine "fix".
So Links can work well on Linux, it really comes down to the hardware. I cannot tell you anything about ATI/AMD graphics. My only ATI stuff dates from the mid 2000's and the HBA I have showed problems with Mint 21.x.
The setup on Linux is not that hard, just a few more Linux specific steps.
I use a subset of around 20 course, some show a little bit of a slowdown in rendering but nothing that dramatic.
When just using Wine (v9.21) around 40% of the courses suffer a crash, it is always the same crash. I have reported it, I suspect something is lacking in Wine, whether it gets addressed who knows.
Hence I have used the wrapper. Personally I think the 2.55 version works a tad better with Linux than the posted 2.7 version.
There is one important thing to note. The Windows instructions have you get the VRAM to 1024, do that on Linux and it will crash with some courses, some will have things like black hole previews or major video corruption. Instead set it to 128MB, that appears to make it happy and I have seen no further problems in this space.
My notebook is another story. It is an Acer Aspire (Gen 7 i5) with 1366 x 768 resolution it has its on chip Intel 620 graphics plus a Nvidia 940MX GPU. I'll start by saying that this resolution on Windows with Link has problems and it is necessary to set it lower.
Wine alone has the same problems as on Desktop with crashes, with courses that do not crash it works really well, even to translucent shadows on Intel working.
Using the wrapper software when in Intel mode Links comes up with a black screen with some lines, they look like lines that would be under the short cut keys. The software is unusable, I have not found a fix. I welcome any suggestions.
Under Nvidia mode with the wrapper Links runs and works, however I see progressively slower rendering times and jerkiness coming on, a restart resets this, notably without the wrapper the same slowdown is observed. Later versions of the Nvidia driver improve the situation, earlier versions do not including the same family that works well on the desktop.
The last couple of major versions of the wrapper that have been released do not work on Linux at all, the developer has no interest in Linux so no resolutions or assistance is likely to come from that direction. I note a water rendering problem using the latest version on Windows as well.
I'll continue to keep an eye on future Wine releases and newer version of the Nvidia driver. Ideal I would love to see a Wine "fix".
So Links can work well on Linux, it really comes down to the hardware. I cannot tell you anything about ATI/AMD graphics. My only ATI stuff dates from the mid 2000's and the HBA I have showed problems with Mint 21.x.
The setup on Linux is not that hard, just a few more Linux specific steps.
Re: Links and Linux
I decided to go back to basics and try again.
I now have Links running reliably on my two Linux systems.
I have concentrated on getting Links working just using Wine, I wanted to keep the Wrapper in reserve and just use it if needed, much like how you would use it on Windows.
I have it running on My notebook in either Intel GPU mode or Nvidia GPU mode. I think it runs under Intel quicker.
On my desktop it is running with a Nvidia HBA.
Trial and error highlighted what is needed.
Obviously the 1.07 patch is required that goes without saying. The Nvidia patch is also needed and in my opinion it is not well named. This patch also corrects some crashes that are caused by reflective water, not just the specific Nvidia crash it addresses, so it is more a general video patch in my view.
One of my test courses did show some rendering issues - black areas, other video corruption at times and an eventual Links hang, it was not great.
I have isolated some specific setting in Wine that seems to correct this issue. One set of settings for Intel and a different set for Nvidia. There is a specific Nvidia setting that impacts rendering issues. For both GPUs I found I needed to set the amount of Video memory, on Nvidia to reflect the amount it had. On Intel to limit it, perhaps on Intel it is something to do with its use of shared memory and how much is dedicated or can be dedicated.
As a bonus Translucent golfer shadows work with both GPUs when just using Wine.
I do not have a suitable ATI/AMD HBA to use for testing, so have no idea what settings may be needed there.
I have tested the wrapper and I have had it running on both systems with Nvidia, personally I think the older 2.55 version is better suited to Linux, the wrapper though is giving me trouble with the Intel GPU in my notebook, I have not been able to get it to work properly under Intel/Linux.
I'm in the process of writing up the setup I have done, as well as the steps needed to use the wrapper on Linux.
I now have Links running reliably on my two Linux systems.
I have concentrated on getting Links working just using Wine, I wanted to keep the Wrapper in reserve and just use it if needed, much like how you would use it on Windows.
I have it running on My notebook in either Intel GPU mode or Nvidia GPU mode. I think it runs under Intel quicker.
On my desktop it is running with a Nvidia HBA.
Trial and error highlighted what is needed.
Obviously the 1.07 patch is required that goes without saying. The Nvidia patch is also needed and in my opinion it is not well named. This patch also corrects some crashes that are caused by reflective water, not just the specific Nvidia crash it addresses, so it is more a general video patch in my view.
One of my test courses did show some rendering issues - black areas, other video corruption at times and an eventual Links hang, it was not great.
I have isolated some specific setting in Wine that seems to correct this issue. One set of settings for Intel and a different set for Nvidia. There is a specific Nvidia setting that impacts rendering issues. For both GPUs I found I needed to set the amount of Video memory, on Nvidia to reflect the amount it had. On Intel to limit it, perhaps on Intel it is something to do with its use of shared memory and how much is dedicated or can be dedicated.
As a bonus Translucent golfer shadows work with both GPUs when just using Wine.
I do not have a suitable ATI/AMD HBA to use for testing, so have no idea what settings may be needed there.
I have tested the wrapper and I have had it running on both systems with Nvidia, personally I think the older 2.55 version is better suited to Linux, the wrapper though is giving me trouble with the Intel GPU in my notebook, I have not been able to get it to work properly under Intel/Linux.
I'm in the process of writing up the setup I have done, as well as the steps needed to use the wrapper on Linux.
Re: Links and Linux
That's great work, Des. I sort of gave up on Links and Linux - partly due to interest and partly due to such old, decrepit hardware (I had to take one laptop apart and heat up/re-flow the graphics chip again else the display wouldn't work at all). I am planning on a new computer soon, so I'll look forward to your write-up on Links, Wine, and Linux (and the wrapper). I'll be installing some Lniux distro on the new computer and dual-booting with Win 11, I think.
Armand
Armand
Re: Links and Linux
My retired Windows machines get turned into Linux machines to extend their life.
So I am not using the latest and greatest, the most powerful machine is a 7th Gen i5, it is something like 7 years old. It runs Linux well, it run Windows 10 a lot less well ...
I set myself a personal project of as much as possible getting the same capability on Linux as I have on Windows, as much as possible I find software to do what I need that runs natively on both platforms, I was mostly using software on Windows that meets this already. I wanted Links mostly on the Linux notebook as well as on my Windows systems, I am using Windows 11 with Links as well. The Linux notebook's screen size, colouring and resolution suit Links well. I'm also not all that keen on dual boot if I can avoid it, I find it annoying, hence the desire to have the same capability under both systems.
I also thought that Linux might offer a good alternative to using Windows for Links. I think it is good to have options.
The write up is coming on, I had saved some bits and pieces during the process fortunately, the write up take as long to create as working out how to get it to work.
Des
So I am not using the latest and greatest, the most powerful machine is a 7th Gen i5, it is something like 7 years old. It runs Linux well, it run Windows 10 a lot less well ...
I set myself a personal project of as much as possible getting the same capability on Linux as I have on Windows, as much as possible I find software to do what I need that runs natively on both platforms, I was mostly using software on Windows that meets this already. I wanted Links mostly on the Linux notebook as well as on my Windows systems, I am using Windows 11 with Links as well. The Linux notebook's screen size, colouring and resolution suit Links well. I'm also not all that keen on dual boot if I can avoid it, I find it annoying, hence the desire to have the same capability under both systems.
I also thought that Linux might offer a good alternative to using Windows for Links. I think it is good to have options.
The write up is coming on, I had saved some bits and pieces during the process fortunately, the write up take as long to create as working out how to get it to work.
Des