Help Different Problem with water reflection

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Ian Wells
Posts: 574
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Ian Wells »

Firstly, I would like to wish all our American friends a happy Thanksgiving.

I believe that the following photos show the problem:
PosA.jpg
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PosB.jpg
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PosC.jpg
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Pos1.jpg
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Pos2.jpg
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Pos3.jpg
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I can guarantee that there are no vertices below the water elevation within 40 yards of the water. I have established that when the golfer is standing on an elevation approximately 6 feet higher than the water elevation the problem disappears, and that the problem is only seen from this direction. If I go back along the lines and stand in the water and look towards the green there is nothing to see.

The other reflection issues on Wade Hampton have all be rectified in accordance with my last post on reflection problems. This is the last issue I have to resolve before releasing the FINAL. Short of bringing the front edge of the green back 12 yards, or increasing the green elevation by 6 feet, I am out of ideas.

Any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. :surrender:

Ian
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Stephen Sullivan
Posts: 315
Joined: August 26th, 2019, 8:42 pm

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Stephen Sullivan »

Is there some reflective water texture on that alignment? I know I keep saying this, but I think a non-reflective water texture would fix the issue.
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Adelade
Posts: 1358
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Adelade »

It would... but its a big price to pay for a mostly rare issue, in my way of seeing it.

I would like to check out if I see them in the exact same positions as you do Ian, could you privately send me that exact version of the course possibly, or do you prefer if I check it out on the last publicly available version instead?
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Ian Wells
Posts: 574
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Ian Wells »

Adelade,
It was the same on the last issue.
Please check if it is the same on the one you have. It should be.
Let me know what you think.
Ian
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Adelade
Posts: 1358
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Adelade »

So I had the similar issue (it doesnt look 100% the same to me as it does for you, but very similar, and despite many re-openings of both the course and the game, it ALWAYS looked the same for me), and yes I agree that its definitely a problem on this hole... seems like it would show up with some frequency over the course of many rounds :sad:

I opened it up in APCD, looked around and experimented back and forth some, to try figure out what might be causing this issue, I hope you dont mind.

First thing I noticed was that in that direction, there is indeed lower ground, and even reflective water some 400 yards away (by 6th green). I tried a bunch of things and re-saved the course to check if things would remove or at least visibly change the appearance of the weird reflections. I tried deleting all 2d Objects on the course, I tried adding verts in the water texture, I tried changing the textures by the water edges, I tried changing all reflective water on the whole course to non-reflective water except for this one lake, I even tried detaching the whole lake from the rest of the plot, to make the water its own separate structure, neither of those things altered the reflections the least bit.

Finally, I tried selecting a bunch of brown looking textures on the whole course and changed them to something random (because the weird reflections are brown-ish), and indeed, it changed the COLOUR of the weird reflections. Then I tried to narrow down which exact area that is getting reflected, which seems to be roughly 100-150 yards towards the 6th green from the edge of the lake that is closest to the 6th green... Not exactly anywhere close to the actual (reflective) water... and a whole 300 yards or so from 7th green where we're seeing it from.

I checked different graphics settings within Links, and the weird reflections completely disappear for me when going to setting 3/6 or under on the "Picture Quality" setting. Lowering this slider does decrease the range at which things render, but at 3/6 the area which seems to be getting reflected still loads... at least in texture, so Im guessing its moreso some type of water quality effect that gets eliminated from 3/6 and below.

Another thing I noticed, which may be purely incidental, is that the reflections seem to come from straight east (what is east when opening up the course in APCD for the first time), I wonder if that possibly could be a requirement for this particular type of weird reflection to show up...

Im sad that I cant come up with any good recommendation or solution... its a real course so what are you supposed to do about it... its not like you can just raise the ground up... Maybe you'll be forced to either accept it or change to non-reflective water :sad: I have no ideas right now, maybe tomorrow, or someone else comes up with something :dunno:
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Ian Wells
Posts: 574
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Ian Wells »

Adelade,
Thank you for all the effort you have expended on this I really appreciate it.
I will leave it for a day or so and then decide. I don’t like the idea of non-reflective, but I will see what it looks like. I am leaning towards raising all the green 6 feet, but I will wait.
Thanks again.
Ian
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Adelade
Posts: 1358
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Adelade »

Oh I suppose thats a pretty good idea if it works.

I was unable to give up though, and tinkered a little more, I think its too soon to give up. I tried deleting 2 faces completely and it seems to have gotten rid of the reflections (at least on first test). It obviously left a hole in the plot but it is in the forest, off the play area so it might not be a problem. Needs more testing though, to make sure it truly works and also to see if the "hole" would be visible from any play areas. Its very possible the hole needn't be as big as I made it either, but I have no more time today, will finish the attempt up tomorrow.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
derricksummers
Posts: 129
Joined: November 29th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by derricksummers »

Hi Ian
I have had this problem many times over the years and done hundreds of changes to try and solve it, it only shows up on reflective water.
It seems to be when a line of verts lines up in a way that the program does not like, its got nothing to do with textures in my findings
I have always solved it with one of two methods. You can raise or lower the water level, sometimes just a few inches providing it does not
spoil the effect you are after, if this does not work the other method is to redo all the verts in the lake. Keep them as simple as possible
just put one row down the centre of the lake and keep the edges to a minimum going from them. Two many verts are not a good thing.
I have included a pic on how I have just cleared the fault that you are having. I would like to see a pic of the verts in your lake //
Lines.png
Lines.png (148.88 KiB) Viewed 3730 times
Lines Gone.png
Lines Gone.png (194.79 KiB) Viewed 3730 times
The problem with APCD is that what works for one does not always work for another. Try it and let us know what happens
Derrick
Ian Wells
Posts: 574
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by Ian Wells »

Derrick,
Thanks for your reply.
Although I have had other reflection problems (see post), I have only had this problem on this hole.
The mesh of the water is the same as yours.
Hole 7 water.jpg
Hole 7 water.jpg (111.32 KiB) Viewed 3713 times
Unless Adelade comes back with an answer, it seems that I will have to raise the green and surrounding area by 6 feet, then the problem goes away. It is more convenient to raise the green than lower the water as the green is in a corner with no interaction with the rest of the course, therefore the changes should be straight forward.
Thanks again for your help.
Ian
derricksummers
Posts: 129
Joined: November 29th, 2019, 5:33 pm

Re: Help Different Problem with water reflection

Post by derricksummers »

:dunno: I agree moving the water is not always a good idea it can cause a lot of work. What you could try is to add a few more verts
down the center line so that there are not as many edges radiating from them. You have quite a lot at one end. Nothing lost and like
I said what works for one does not always work for others. Hope you can find an easy solution to the problem.
Derrick
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