Point Lobos Ocean Course

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migolfer
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Location: Northern Michigan

Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by migolfer »

While I appreciate the addition of another course for Links, I have to say the green on the 18th hole of this one sux. At the hardness/speed level I play on[**], it is unplayable. I had a nice round going until I got to that hole when it took me 8 shots to get it in the cup. That hole is one of a few that slopes front to back in a manner that is more severe (IMO) than you'd find on a real course. I do realize that this just a golf sim and you should have artistic liberty to do whatever, but I won't play this course again because of the greens. (For whatever that's worth.)

https://www.golfcourseindustry.com/arti ... ope-right/
https://thefriedegg.com/golf-course-arc ... surrounds/


[**]
Green Hardness: Moderate(Challenging)
Green Speed: Moderate(Challenging)
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Stuart Hatch
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Joined: August 27th, 2019, 4:02 pm

Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by Stuart Hatch »

Totally agree. Just played two rounds and struggled to find 'fair' custom pin positions on a number of the holes. One to be avoided if you play at some of the faster challenging speeds. Firm/Medium(c) or Moderate(c)/Medium(c) absolute tops :fear: :nono:
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sagevanni
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Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by sagevanni »

I just looked and played the difficult pin positions and I always test my courses on the hardest settings. Seems to me you guys can't putt.

Sage........ :dunno: :cheers1:
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
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Stephen Sullivan
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Joined: August 26th, 2019, 8:42 pm

Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by Stephen Sullivan »

sagevanni wrote: June 13th, 2022, 6:45 am I just looked and played the difficult pin positions and I always test my courses on the hardest settings. Seems to me you guys can't putt.

Sage........ :dunno: :cheers1:
Hmmmmm. Not sure saying people cannot putt is the best way to defend yourself. I had a quick look around and tend to agree that some pins are a bit OTT. I'm fortunate that the Tour I run only has 2 rounds per event, so I could probably find enough pins on each green. However, there are pins on slopes that are quite severe. These would be tough at the speeds mentioned, never mind any faster. Just my opinion as a player, tour director and designer :dunno:
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sagevanni
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Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by sagevanni »

As I posted before..............
sagevanni wrote: May 17th, 2022, 9:18 am PGA tour Pro golfer to tournament organizer........."These greens are way to difficult, I quit."

Sage............. :cheers1:
And I stand by that....................
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
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sagevanni
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Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by sagevanni »

I give you Phil.............................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jC86u ... ults_Squad
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
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Adelade
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Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by Adelade »

You could put a hole cup in the middle of the steepest slope on Augusta's 16th or 18th greens (just as examples), and it'd be very possible to hole them out (even from above), but that doesnt mean players would find it fun or fair. Perhaps the crowd would find it fun for a short while, until they realize it becomes a bit of a lottery moreso than a contest of finding out who plays best golf.

If all it takes for someone to qualify as a person who 'doesnt know how to putt', is for them to want pins to be more fun and fair than the ones on a few of the greens on the course in question, I think youll find that the vast majority of Links players dont know how to putt :tongue:

At the end of the day, designers have the full right to design greens and pins however they want, and I dont think anyone's arguing with that. Players, meanwhile, at least have the right to choose which courses they dont want to play.

P.S. There is a key difference between "difficult greens" and "difficult greens without realistically pinnable spots", but it seems like everytime someone raises a concern with the latter, they get blamed for complaining about the former.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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MrT
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Joined: May 24th, 2021, 6:48 pm

Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by MrT »

All these discussions got me curious. Normally I do not play fictional courses anymore unless I am convinced that they are legitimate, i.e. they could exist in real life and people would actually pay membership fees and course fees to play there. But curiosity made me do it.

I must say that this course is intriguing.

The design is unusual and that can be a good thing as there is no need to have 200 courses that look almost the same, except for a kink on the fairway or a couple of trees or the position of a bunker. So that is :thumbup:

I played it at Champ level, M/Fc with gusty winds and mixing medium and difficult pin settings.

Per se, I did not have issues on 18 (even), but it could be because the pin this time was on top of a "little hill". I can say that M/Fc is probably the most this course can take before it becomes a comedy of errors. I achieved my worst score in a long while at +8, but I was not trying too hard. I have always suffered courses where cups are on slanted greens with no flat spot whatsoever nearby. And this course gives you plenty of that. I did not do too bad on any hole, just because of the sloped green, one has to play the putts safe or the ball is gone (good in baseball, not in golf) and, unless one can stop the ball very close to the pins (hard to do with M/Fc settings as greens are really fast) that creates the conditions for several +1s. 33 putts is a bit more than I am used to. :oops:

The fairways reminded me of Devil's Island, but not on steroids. Mostly S-shaped. Went on rough more than usual, but even at Champ level (i.e. now rough is felt and sloped lies are going to play a role) I was able to remedy and put balls near greens or on greens. Ultimately, I do believe that is advantageous not to hit the greens and instead stay near the fringes so that a well aimed pitch will put the ball near the cup without the drama of putting on sloped terrain. If I were to replay I would follow this strategy now... :yes:

All in all, it was an interesting course, but it is the kind of course that wants to hurt you and not one that makes me feel like I would like to play here often to take the abuse. If your score is higher than at Augusta, well... something is not 100% right in the balance of elements. :whip:

In the end, I cannot say that this course is crazy, although slightly less sloped greens would have made it more enticing. I do not mind when greens have sections, some sloped, some flat, some on two tier levels, but those all sloped are not my kind of thing. Those I do suffer, in particular with fast settings like M/Fc .... :surrender:
pmgolf
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Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by pmgolf »

There are other pin positions on those same holes that are much more playable. It looks like what's causing the trouble is when "difficult" or "moderate" pins are chosen, or maybe someone is selecting "all #9 pins" or "all #17 pins". Not all designers know what makes a pin "moderate" or "difficult", or even "easy" for that matter. There are plenty of examples where "easy" pins are more difficult then the ones rated "difficult" on the same green. Or all pins - "easy", "moderate" and "difficult" have the same level of difficulty - sometimes all "easy", sometimes all "difficult". All the above is NOT a good way to select the pins you're going to use.

There are things you can do to increase your chances of finding good pins. Go into "Practice" mode, select your course, select "custom" pins, click the Custom Pins Button and when it opens, click on the "Show all pin positions in the game" checkbox. Then go back and set your wind, firmness and green speed conditions. You can play all holes from the tee, or just go from green to green and check the easy-moderate-difficult pins using the BLI (Bread Line Indicator). Get fairly close to each pin (10 feet or so), place the BLI next to the pin flag, and see how much slope shows on the BLI (yellow at the bottom of the red and white striped BLI) (if the BLI pole is yellow, you're not rotated toward the pin). The more the yellow is above the distance writing, the worse the pin is (ie. really difficult) - a little bit is ok.

Rio Lobos:
Hole 10 - Pins 9, 10, 15, 16, 17 need to be moved to the back of the green.

Hole 18 - Pins 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17 need to be moved to the far side of pin 16 from where they are.

I don't care what kind of putter you are - those pins need to be moved. For those wondering about Sage's courses - I've never seen him have pins like these. Selecting pin positions is not an easy job!

Pete
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sagevanni
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Re: Point Lobos Ocean Course

Post by sagevanni »

What I would like to know is the course worth making the pin location changes...????
If only a few players have an issue I don't see the need.
If many players have an issue and the course is going to be used in online tournaments and such it would justify the change.

Let me know and I think Pete and I can work something out. Do you agree Pete...?????

Sage....... :cheers1:
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
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