Carnoustie 2022

Announce and discuss forthcoming and recent course releases or request beta help from members.
pmgolf
Posts: 1097
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 2:41 am
Location: near Richmond, VA

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by pmgolf »

Wow, Ian, that's a lot of verts! That's what I was interested in hearing about. I'm working on a course that's only in 2D on Google Earth, but it's one I play twice each week and have played at a lot for the past 15 years. Adjusting the verts is difficult for me with the tremor I have in my hands so I was looking for something to make it easier, but your last post let me know that the lidar thing isn't it. You did save me many hours I would have wasted trying it though, and I do appreciate it!

Pete
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Duck Hook
Posts: 396
Joined: August 26th, 2019, 10:49 pm
Location: Knee deep in Dust - Australia

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by Duck Hook »

I will be intersted to see how the APCD handles that amount of verts. I can't help but feel it's going to be a real pain in the back side to work such a plot. :dunno: Good luck :cheers1:
g3b
Posts: 45
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 1:56 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by g3b »

Hi Linksters!
This may not be the forum for this question excuse if it has been asked before. It seemed to me when Perfect Parallel golf was started the designers could import the course data from the links design program of a particular course --- would it be possible to "reverse engineer" a course-forge design back into links 03 design program. Just wondering if Sage, Glenn or Adelade, Ponkey 'or other designers that I haven't mentioned have thought about it?

Looking forward to playing the new Carnoutie!
Thanks g3b
Ian Wells
Posts: 561
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by Ian Wells »

Pete,
Wow, Ian, that's a lot of verts!
Linkster can make a download with a larger grid which may be better for you. If you go to a download of a 10m or larger grid, it would give all the elevations you need without all the verts, and you don't need so much detail as you play the course. Just a thought.

Duck Hook

Apart from the obvious problem of having to manipulate so may verts, the only other "pain" I have encountered is when I move from Terrain to the Planting tab and have to wait 90 seconds, but other than that nothing else so far. It will be interesting when I get to plant the course. :whistle:

I have to admit that I do not find building the course as enjoyable with the LIDAR download as my normal way of building, it's a little like "painting by numbers". Making the cart paths and the first cut is time consuming and tedious. This may well change the more I become accustomed to the LIDAR download

Ian
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by Adelade »

I was worrying more about the seamblending than planting, because completed seamblends seem to slow down my own APCD the most (you can always easily hide planting in APCD but you cant really get much done with textures and/or surface toggled off). It takes a long time for the planting tab to load because at least one vert or edge has been manipulated or added since the last save. Once you really start planting, you probably dont have to manipulate verts during it, so then it should be less of a problem, although each save might still take a while.

If it was me, I'd save seamblending for last and (2D) planting for second-last (but I could be wrong, there might be better ways). On the other hand, then one wont get a good idea of how well Links will handle the course until the very end.

@g3b: In terms of elevations its probably possible as long as you can turn it into DEM format, but you have to find someone with the knowledge and willpower to figure it out. You also might have to look through the PP terms of service to see if they might threaten to sue you if you do it lol, not to mention each course's original (digital) designer about getting their permission.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
morvio100
Posts: 329
Joined: April 6th, 2022, 11:02 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by morvio100 »

Hey Pete....hole 10 near tree at tee off to the right same tree as mentioned before(cypress type tree) - looks quite blurred...the 2 cars around the green lovely touch as are the placement of 2/3 people at various locations near buildings....


hole 14 tee divot scuff marks seem to missing ?? ... be nice if the other tee distances had faded scuff marks also .. the culprit crypress tree is to the left of the green here too. same culprit tree that was pointed out in a previous post near the green on the 11th...might be an idea just to replace that type of tree where ever you have planted around the course and put a similar tree in its place with more foliage definition ... that tree unfortunately detracts from otherwise beautiful fairways and greens...easily remedied i would imagine...also noted a great place to plant more knee height yellow gorse grass would be round the 14th green here...I'm sure you have your own ideas as where to plant more yellow gorse grasses....


the 16th playing into the club house ..ooohhh yeahh...great work on that club house.. looking directly at that great 3d work noticed to cars to the left both had their tax and insurance in date ...but need to be rescaled their a slight bit too big...not the single one thats fine... the other two...

the 17th up around the gully/burn that crosses the fairway I see there is a bridge..all good there (incidentally the railing work is superb).there seems to be a flat green crossing/boarding point ... walk over the stream/gully maybe you could in some way enhance the look of them they look rather plain...flat/green board ya probably know what I mean...funny story here...I hit a few drives to hit this element specifically ...currently the properties of this element seem to be set as though the ball is hitting concrete/or lets say a road as regards to the physics reaction of the ball (that ball absolutely bullets off them) ..and yes that second piece of fairway past the burn can be reached with a very high powered/I MEAN MAXED OUT DRIVE with the flight trajectory set very very low...here's the funny part..hit another drive trying to clear the burn and the ball hit the brick work on the far side recoceted ..hit the near side brick work of the burn and was sent back the correct direction and found that second piece of fairway (thanks brickwork ..325 yrd drive into a head breeze :rofl: ....ahh good old links 2K3 physics...OH YEAH...simply cant be beaten 20 years on...and once again here Pete.... you might want to apply a minimized tree line where the pano meets the horizon - anti aliasing showing its ugly head here...


Might be an idea to plant/texture various points of the burn brickwork up with some mosses/undergrowth and wild grasees on the brickwork at various points this of the course..that is .....if your striving for Bethpage/Royal Lytham levels of perfection..completely up to you I guess...

as a side not the top cam looks fantastic they way you've incorporated the houses where/and when needed ..superb

You have in places an almost fluorescent type of green grass...... this in my humble opinion should be replaced with the type of yellow gorse grass you'll find in abundance on both Beth/and Royal Lytham and many other courses...baseline the course needs much more of that yellow gorse/rough on many/if not all fairways and various greens ..might be an idea to roughen up the bunker lips with very fine yellow grass...and I will make the point again "ROUGHEN UP THE ROUGH"@ with that yellow gorse grass..

the 18th beautiful...alot of that almost fluorescent green grass evident on this hole..as suggested maybe replace it with the/a yellow gorse grass... the people in front of the clubhouse .perfectly scaled...the cars on this hole need to be rescaled //(smaller)...looking back the down the fairway....again pano needs to addressed with a tree line of somekind...here's the little bit of a let down for me.... although that great clubhouse looks great from a distance...when putting and you looking at it close ..very blurred..maybe you have a more detailed version for when putting on the 18th green for the Final...????

All in all ...a magnificent piece of APCD work...huge potential....guess ya gotta ask yourself the question..do I want to up a good course, or a Hall of Famer...does this course have the potential to be a Hall of Famer...simple answer is ..Absolutley !!...once again Pete, well done... :thumbup:

Played the back 9 of Bethpage ..just before...I mean the bunker work/the bunker lips...the broken purposely patchy in places fairways and light rough...I mean the green textures the fairways wow...!!!!...just sublime...think it was the 2006 version..in fact I'm sure it was.(as I somehow cant get the HD version to load properly for some reason)....that's what I reckon deserves to classed a Hall of Famer...everything about that course holds up to this day...simply fantastic course..!!...there's only a handful of courses produced to that level....reckon Carnoustie 2022 could be there if upped a level or two.... :thumbup:
ponkey
Posts: 74
Joined: April 5th, 2020, 10:28 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by ponkey »

Hi morvio100

thanks for your review of Carnoustie 2022.
I've added plenty of crowds, and plenty of extra grass.
I've changed a few trees, hopefully the ones you were talking about. One is visible to the right off the 10th tee, and one to the left of the 10th tee
Have the bad trees gone?
Have the bad trees gone?
hole10.jpg (544.08 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
, another is behind the 13th green that is also visible from the 14th tee
Have the bad trees gone ?
Have the bad trees gone ?
hole14.jpg (583.53 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
, and the one to the left of the 14th tee. I think all should be visible in my pics.
The pano has been updated with much crisper pics.
Is the pano better?
Is the pano better?
hole6.jpg (509.87 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
Some of the green bridges have been changed, but plenty of them on the course are pretty plain, they are concrete with a sort of green astro turf covering. They do play like concrete.
The luminous green grass is called maram grass and there are plenty of patches of it especially on the 18th so I've left that in.
The burn wall, thanks for mentioning it, I was thinking that it was pretty cartoonlike and in need of change, so that texture has completely changed.
I've tried to address the issue of reflections in the burn in places, I'll probably only do it where the players might realistically go. Hope you like it.
You can see the burn wall and reflections in the pic of the 18th short of the burn pic.
New burn wall and reflections
New burn wall and reflections
hole18 short of the burn.jpg (584.52 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
The clubhouse texture has been updated and hopefully is not so blurred.
New clubhouse texture
New clubhouse texture
hole18 new clubhouse.jpg (478.07 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
The 2 cars to the left of the 18th have been removed.
As for the bunkers......I agree that the bunkers on Bethpage are sensational but they are very different to the revetted faces of Carnoustie. Those revetted faces make roughening them up very, and I mean very, difficult. Even the ones on Royal Lytham are not roughened at all. I've tried various ideas but none seem to look any better.
Here's the bunker look
Here's the bunker look
bunker behind 6th green.jpg (481.41 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
Phew, I need a beer.

Thanks again
Peter
Mr Mulligan
Posts: 44
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 8:48 pm
Location: Sparta, Wisconsin

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by Mr Mulligan »

:thumbup:
Wow! Fantastic Peter! Can't wait!
morvio100
Posts: 329
Joined: April 6th, 2022, 11:02 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by morvio100 »

Hey Pete, have to say loving that burn wall !!...huge step up...nice little bit of tinkering to the bunker walls also, and that Clubhouse looking alot ! shaper oohh yeah !..you right about Royal Lytham...regards the bunkers..there too heavily packed with grass textures although there is a nice mix of grasses on them - clearly from the royal Lytham splash - you can see clearly that some of Royal Lytham/s bunkers should certainly have more sand exposure that is my only very minor quibble with Royal Lytham but tbh not good karma to criticize such a sublime piece of work as Royal Lytham)- but I imagine that is quite tricky to do, exposing that sand...Carnoustie 2022 shows great potential as a top draw course ! ... for me (judging by migs pics and the majority of the google pics I checked out ...keep packin that yellow gorse grass all over the place - even it comprisises loading rendering times slightly (I doubt it) as R Lytham loads perfectly fine ...the grass I refer too is of course lining both sides of R Lytham fairways...simplied .."I reckon the more of that specific grass you pack in the better (and more realistic/weather beaten and WILD) Carnoustie 2022 is going too look ....good luck with it... :clapping:

PS @ Check out Royal Liverpool or dl'd if meccessary , their is a blended yellow/and red grass he has used *Sean Landry, on that course, that would look superb on Carnoustie 2022, the course is unlocked...
Ian Wells
Posts: 561
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Carnoustie 2022

Post by Ian Wells »

Peter,
Your course looks fantastic. I feel sure that a lot of time and effort has gone in to producing it and it has been well worth it. :cheers1:
I am looking forward to playing it.
Ian
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