Technical questions about the game.

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gene_golf
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by gene_golf »

pmgolf wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 12:41 am Mr. T: "What/How should one use "course conditions"? And what do they mean? Does it imply that the course will play with the actual stimp as in real life?"

Course conditions are selected by choosing "Course Speed using Course Conditions" and "Course Firmness using Course Conditions" in the drop-down menus when choosing green Speed and green Hardness for your round. They have nothing to do with Stimp.

Pete
There are 6 hardness and 6 fastness possibilities in which to choose from, other than what the course's designer may have set for hardness or fastness as you can go along with either alone by what course's designer thinks course might best play and that determination for both cases would be one of the 6 possibilities in each category. Other than Augusta I have not tried to select course settings that the course's designer set up and believe Augusta was set up as firm/challenging and fast/challenging one of the 36 possibilities which equates to 18 on stimp. When chose that setting I got a warning that I might encounter unexpected results. Clifford Roberts wrote that I had seen he wanted Masters to have firmest and fastest settings possible to identify best player playing the week of Masters to win. The judgement to use course's designer recommendation does not reflect how a course will play actually as other than week Masters is played the greens play entirely different for regular players than the pros. If tried to keep greens hard and fast for too long a time the grass would die especially in warm weather despite how much watering they get. Then again this time of year a lot of courses overseed with rye grass as bermuda grows well in Summer and Fall heat whereas bent is does well also, but not quite as hearty to survive excessive heat and winter rye for sure will not survive probably dying out in Spring before Summer. Many older courses pre-2007 when 3 challenging conditions were added to each of the possible hardness or fastness choices those older courses had more slopes in their greens with several unfair pin placements already without playing under the challenging settings as well for them. It would be good to keep a record when found rounds were unfair what conditions played as well as what might have seen as unfair pin placements not to have those bad situations reoccur another time playing a course.

Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings
Post by Andy » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:40 am
Here you go... can't remember for sure where I got this from so I can't give proper credit. It may have been from Daz's Offline Tour
COURSE SETTINGS STIMPMETER
SOFT / SLOW 5
SOFT (CH) / SLOW 5
SOFT (CH) / MEDIUM 5
SOFT / MEDIUM 5.5
MODERATE / SLOW 5.5
SOFT (CH) / FAST 5.5
MODERATE (CH) / SLOW 5.5
MODERATE (CH) / MEDIUM 6
SOFT / FAST 6.5
MODERATE / MEDIUM 6.5
FIRM / SLOW 6.5
SOFT / SLOW (CH) 6.5
MODERATE (CH) / FAST 6.5
FIRM (CH) / SLOW 6.5
MODERATE / FAST 7.5
FIRM / MEDIUM 7.5
SOFT / MEDIUM (CH) 7.5
FIRM (CH) / MEDIUM 7.5
SOFT (CH) / SLOW (CH) 8
FIRM / FAST 8.5
MODERATE / SLOW (CH) 8.5
FIRM (CH) / FAST 8.5
SOFT / FAST (CH) 9
FIRM / SLOW (CH) 9.5
MODERATE / MED (CH) 10
SOFT (CH) / MED (CH) 10
MOD(CH) / SLOW (CH) 10
FIRM / MEDIUM (CH) 11.5
MOD(CH) / MEDIUM (CH) 11.5
FIRM (CH) / SLOW (CH) 11.5
SOFT (CH) / FAST (CH) 12
MODERATE / FAST (CH) 13
FIRM / FAST (CH) 15.5
FIRM (CH) / MED(CH) 15.5
MOD(CH) / FAST (CH) 16.5
FIRM (CH) / FAST (CH) 18
Last edited by gene_golf on April 3rd, 2022, 5:09 am, edited 5 times in total.
gene_golf
Posts: 267
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by gene_golf »

One thing not mentioned about play so far would be what club players use to chip with and for me would be lob wedge if not have lie in fringe or fairway from which I may choose to putt. If play with strong wind or gusty wind settings it is so strange how wind affects chip shots in that besides lie have and slope to traverse in between lie and hole that wind has to be accounted for as well.
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Adelade
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by Adelade »

MrT wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:10 am but what is the practical implication vs. choosing the other settings?
It depends on what the designer chose for the green texture's properties. For 99.9% courses out there, the designer didnt change them, so it will be whatever the default value is (I have no clue what that might be). Only a handful of courses had custom green properties set by the designer, I think gator gave me a list of them a while back but I cant access it right now, but for those few courses the designer probably tested it out using trial and error until they thought it was similar to how they had experienced it in real life. The designer can set any custom green speed (and firmness, and bounce properties etc) if they want to, not just among the 36 pre-sets. For example, you could make it 5 times as fast as Fc/Fc if - for some reason - one wanted to, or pick a value between the pre-set numbers. There just isnt much point in doing it because it would probably take a bunch of trial and error to get it exactly where you want it and then almost no one is going to bother using that setting anyway.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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MrT
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by MrT »

I get it. Now things make more sense overall.
I also seem to recall that you published a revised table of stimps where the speeds were a bit lower than those exhibited in the table provided by gene_golf. I recall that Fc/Fc was more like 16 and not 18:

Firm (ch)/Fast(ch) 15.7
Mod(ch)/Fast(ch) 14.4
Firm(ch)/Med(ch) 13.5
Firm/Fast)ch) 13.5
Mod/Fast(ch) 11.3

etc....

Thank you everyone for the inputs.
gene_golf
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by gene_golf »

Adelade, I remember playing Walnut Grove where the rough texture was modified. In course release notes there is this information by Art Patscheck, "I have modified the deep grass texture properties using Andrew Jones' texture modification utility. I've always felt that Links didn't properly represent the really deep and thick stuff where all you can do is hack it out, get back on the fairway and salvage a par. Well, I feel that I've come up with just such a texture and I hope you enjoy it. If you don't, just stay out of it.. :)"
gator
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by gator »

Adelade wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:41 am ...I think gator gave me a list of them a while back...
pmgolf wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 12:41 am Course conditions are selected by choosing "Course Speed using Course Conditions" and "Course Firmness using Course Conditions" in the drop-down menus when choosing green Speed and green Hardness for your round. They have nothing to do with Stimp.
Several years ago, Armand, compiled/posted on the old forum a list of courses where the designer(s) included specific hardness/firmness and speed settings. You would access these designer included settings in the manner Pete previously described.

Information I have on those courses:
Course conditions.jpg
Course conditions.jpg (293.93 KiB) Viewed 2299 times
shagboy
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by shagboy »

Mr T, this thread might answer some of your questions about what control a designer has over grass in the rough.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1418

Also you might want to play Wentworth West or Crater’s Edge to experience brutal rough.
gene_golf
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by gene_golf »

Besides Walnut Grove having tough rough the list by Gator reminded me that had seen US Open rough. Looking at list I see it was at Shinnecock HD Tournament version by Robert Miller being the designer that created this texture.
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MrT
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by MrT »

Learning a lot. Thank you very much!
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MrT
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Re: Technical questions about the game.

Post by MrT »

shagboy wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 7:50 pm Mr T, this thread might answer some of your questions about what control a designer has over grass in the rough.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1418

Also you might want to play Wentworth West or Crater’s Edge to experience brutal rough.
''

I will for sure. Right now I am moving to Moderate/Fast (CH) as my lowest setting and beginning to play at Champ level. So the issues came up for I was noticing that in the M/Fc setting some holes play foul. At least I know what I am up against. Every time I reach -8 to -10 on a relatively consistent basis I lose interest for the game and need to make it harder. But, unfortunately, from some settings on, quite a few holes become unfair. So I decided to ask. Now I have a much better picture about what can be done or not. In particular the Physics and the fact that certain designers' settings are not necessarily meant to reproduce the real deal course, but serve perhaps a similar and different purpose as well.
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